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tv   MSNBC - Republican National Convention  MSNBC  July 21, 2016 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT

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joan, david, josh, thanks a lot. i will see you again tomorrow back in our regular time, 8:00 p.m. eastern. msnbc's special convention coverage continues right now. brian williams, rachel maddow and chris matthews. tonight, donald trump accepts his party's nomination. >> we're going to win. we're going to win so big. >> following a stunning night of defiance. >> vote your conscience. >> by the rival who refused to endorse him. >> i am not in the habit of supporting people who attacked my wife and attacked my father. >> and after days of campaign stumbles, all eyes are on donald trump as he takes control of the party and lays out his vision for the country. will he meet the moment? it all comes down to this. the final night of the republican national convention.
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here we go. the night most americans and let's face it, most republicans never imagined, as recently as one year ago. tonight, donald j. trump of new york accepts his party's nomination for president. the first three days of this convention have been anything but conventional. marked at times by open dissent, overshadowed from the start by controversy surrounding the potential first lady's debut on the national stage. last night, the arena after all erupted in boos. but the one constant in cleveland this week has been trump himself. for the first time we can remember, anyway, the nominee has appeared before this gathering every night of this gathering, leading up to tonight's acceptance speech. trump was at the arena late today with his daughter ivanka who will introduce him tonight for a final walk-through. good evening. i'm brian williams with rachel maddow once again here at our
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election headquarters in new york. when you think about it, for our loyal viewers and the twisted few who were with us for all those tuesdays, primaries, caucuses, this is what it all leads up to and a big night for this guy, as much about who this guy is as the state of our politics. >> yeah. if you think about it, all of those tuesdays were the start of a long additive math problem. each of those put some delegates on the board. they all added up to a total which has produced this end tonight and you know, the conventions are usually important but not exciting in the sense that you sort of know how they're going to end. we haven't had a truly open convention since 1976. this wasn't an open convention. there's not supposed to be any suspense. there has been a little suspense. just in terms of how things have gone. there has been chaos, there has been conflict, there have been screw-ups, there's been inexplicable scheduling, there has been the campaign and the candidate stepping on their own
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intended message and sometimes communicating a story of the day that had nothing to do with what the text of the convention says should be the story of the day. so we're on the precipice of two very very important events. donald trump accepting the nomination of the republican party, hillary clinton possibly within the next 24 hours announcing her running mate and there's a lot of obviously drama and suspense about that. i'm not sure anybody would take a solid bet on who she's going to pick right now. those things we know are about to happen. how we're going to get there, what's going to happen over the course of the next four to five hours is an absolute mystery to me. >> chris matthews will watch it from his catbird seat. set the scene for us from there. >> everything rachel said is certainly on the mark and i think it's been, to summarize it, it's been almost a meet the parents weekend. you are getting to meet the in-laws. the trumpsters are getting to meet the regular republicans. it's been a bit awkward like all those occasions are. clearly this is an out of the
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box nomination. we are going to have it accepted tonight. here's a line from a speech tonight where one of the ones we are allowed to put out. this is trump. to me saying what his campaign's about. as long as we are led by politicians who will not put america first, then we can be assured that other nations will not treat america with respect. this will all change when i take office. we are basically watching an out of the box nationalist against illegal immigration, concerned about lost industrial jobs, angry about wars he doesn't think we should have fought, taking over this week and officially tonight a political party which has not been on those lines at all. so the establishment has had to meet the takeover artist and that has been a very awkward week by a man who is in many ways an amateur politically. tonight we will see him, see if he can win the battle, convince the country he's the right nominee. >> one of the things we would not have been able to predict i
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think before this convention actually unfolded is that there would be so much uncertainty, there would be so much that wasn't planned by the rnc that came to pass over these convention nights and i want to review a little bit of that for a second. we have sort of a highlight reel of how things haven't gone how they were supposed to. the open question though is whether or not any of this hurts donald trump. this hasn't been a conventional convention by any means, as we will show you in just a moment. but he hasn't been conventional candidate from the beginning and so far has done pretty well. >> those opposed shall say no. >> no! >> in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. >> this is not a meeting of the republican national committee. this is a meeting of brownshirts. >> they cheated, they cheated. >> you work hard for what you want in life. >> you work hard for what you want in life. >> that your word is your bond. >> that your word is your bond. >> this crowd thinned out
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dramatically. i think the theme for the week so far is missed opportunities. >> we were never told that you were going to miscount our votes tonight. >> you are saying the republican national committee secretary did some funny math on your vote. >> people are streaming for the exits. >> vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust. >> not scenes from a typical convention. >> no. that was a chorus of boos last night. >> it comes at the end of all the other stuff that hasn't gone the way it's supposed to go at a convention. the question, though, is whether or not somebody can take a sow's ear and turn it into a silk purse. there's been a lot donald trump has done technically wrong as a candidate but sure hasn't paid a price for it in either the primary or honestly in the presidential polling. >> the question is before it's all over tonight, can they
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convert that into positive energy, have they been all the way through. jacob soboroff has gotten to watch all of this from the floor. he's on the floor once again. jacob? >> reporter: you know, i was thinking about what you guys were saying. as i have crossed this country over the last six months talking to voters, seeing this process unfold, at every turn donald trump seems to do tun expected. the man is here on this night, he will expect -- excuse me, accept the nomination for the republican nomination of president of the united states and everything that happened here would indicate that twhaent going to work out for him over the last three days. this gentleman right here, and all of these delegates sort of personify that. let me introduce you to john shepherd. we are live on msnbc. you were telling me that you came into this convention a ted cruz delegate. you were excited about ted cruz, bound to ted cruz, but you are now gung-ho for donald trump. why is that? >> he's the nominee. he is what we are putting forward in the party. ted cruz, nice guy, but he's not the nominee.
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i'm a realist, a pragmatist so i'm going to vote. >> none of this as my grandmother would say has changed how you feel about this at all? craziness? >> oh, no, no. when i came in, i was bound for two votes to senator cruz. he won it on the first ballot. to go ahead and stay with cruz or to be angry about it is just staying in the pits and spinning your wheels. you're not making anything. you're not making any progress. there's no point. >> reporter: nobody wants to stay in the pits and spin the wheels. i think that that is the way a lot of people feel out here. >> bringing yiddish to texas. jacob soboroff, thank you very much. let's go to south carolina -- >> trying to bring a little yiddish to texas. >> kelly o'donnell is standing by with the south carolina delegation. >> reporter: well, this has been a week about trying to build party unity and we have a little example of that. we have two delegates from south carolina. this is jane thompson and sally
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atwater, a former rubio, former bush supporters. they have now supported trump. jane, you have told me this week made a difference, that you came in not so sure about donald trump. what helped you change your mind? >> i think listening to donald trump jr. actually lay out specifics about rolling back some of the dodd-frank things, i'm in real estate, that does impact our business. having a very specific plan about how to fix our economy really changed my mind. they do have specifics moving forward. >> reporter: you think you can be proud to support him going forward? >> i absolutely do. i think the success of his children and what they have done in this convention in showing us the human side of donald trump, i think that is definitely something i can go home and sell and support completely. >> reporter: brian, you might have noticed when i said this is sally atwater, that might have triggered something in you. the late lee atwater, who was probably in great part responsible for some of south carolina's reputation for tough
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politics, sally is his widow. lee atwater passed away many years ago. so you have long ties to the bush family. >> i do have long ties to the bush family. i ran for superintendent of education in south carolina and i came in second. they supported me. jeb bush was strong in the area of education. his record in florida. >> reporter: do you understand there are people who have been frustrated that the bushes have not sort of come here to support the nominee now? do you get that? >> oh, i get that fine. i really do. >> reporter: was it hard for you to make this switch to donald trump? >> it wasn't. donald trump reminds me of my late husband but there is something greater than that. i moved from washington, d.c. to columbia, south carolina and i taught in south carolina, a rural school district, and what i saw was an economy, there are no jobs down there. >> reporter: so his message
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about people having hard times made a difference for you? >> unbelievable. i give an example. i have an uncle that just passed away in union, south carolina, and union, south carolina was a textile mill. i looked over, there were five pall bearers in their 20s to 30s. four of the five young men and none of them had jobs. they were all college educated. >> reporter: that gives you a picture of what people are living with, the kind of personal stories these delegates bring to this convention. so a former rubio, former jeb bush supporter now saying they will support donald trump with some enthusiasm coming out of this convention. back to you. >> you're right. the name atwater still means a lot on that convention floor and in that party. y kelly, thanks. >> steve schmidt, republican veteran, eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning columnist for "the washington post." day four is the most important
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day of the convention. getting the nomination was the most important business day but this is the might we end with donald trump's speech. is that the alpha and the omega? doors t or does the rest of the night matter too? >> i think we should keep in mind the important thing is how people who are watching on television see this speech as opposed to the way people in the hall see the speech. the people in the hall are uncommonly committed to the republican party. they are active in the party. it is just a part of them to be excited about the republican candidate. people at home, not necessarily so much. they want to hear donald trump, i can't imagine this is the first time anyone in america will be hearing donald trump speak given the past -- >> it may be the first time they are seriously considering this as someone who could get their
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vote for president. >> and really pay attention to what he says he's going to do. the tone and tenor of the speech, what it focuses on, all this is really important. >> steve? >> this is one of the most important moments not just of the -- not just tonight but of the entire campaign. tonight donald trump will speak to the largest audience of this campaign unrebutted by his opponent and after tonight, the most important nights are the debates coming forward. what we see tonight is donald trump going, is he going to lay out what's wrong with the country. we know he will do that for sure. will he offer a remedy for what's wrong. will he offer a positive vision. will he be able to communicate optimism for the future. will he begin to rise up as a plausible president of the united states. will people at home watching on their television sets be able to see donald trump addressing the nation from the oval office in a time of crisis. all of those things are part of what he has to accomplish tonight in this speech.
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>> do you think that he should actually try to be a little, forgive me, a little boring? he has a reputation for incredible charisma, for being able to hold a crowd, for stream of consciousness stuff that sometimes offends, sometimes entertains, but always attracts attention. should this be staid, standard politician or should he try to be trump-esque? >> he should try to be statesman-like. the president of the united states is the most powerful office in the world. he commands the most powerful military in the world. thousands of nuclear weapons in the american arsenal. does he have the judgment, the temperament, to be that person, to be the most powerful person in the world. and his communication tonight to the american people at a time when americans believe very deeply that the country's in the wrong direction, one of the prerequisites of political leadership is the ability to communicate optimism in times of crisis, in times of trouble. will he clear that bar tonight.
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>> optimism about the state of america has not been a hallmark of his campaign thus far. >> it has not been present in this convention for sure. >> let's bring in nicolle wallace to this conversation, veteran of many of the same campaigns mr. schmidt has been and former communications director in the bush white house. you said something in the throes of last night while the boos were still being tossed to ted cruz that you thought that maybe that moment had done a huge favor to this convention. >> yeah. i saw paul manafort and i said do you think ted cruz achieved what you haven't been able to do so far. has he done more to unite the party than you have been able to do. he didn't deny that might be the case. i'm struck listening to you guys so far by how much we have been forced to change the frame. the frame we had around this primary was basically two republican parties. one that wanted to continue down the path and nominate another establishment republican. donald trump blew that up,
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burned it down and basically annihilated the idea that the republican nomination would go to an establishment figure. he has now over the last four days, blown up, burned down and annihilated the idea of what's supposed to happen at a convention. nothing that ever normally happens, has happened. i think donald trump is going to be just fine tomorrow morning. >> let's bring in chuck todd from cleveland. chuck, in terms of what nicolle just said, in terms much how trump has benefited from what looks like as you described it a mess of a convention, what do you think is a, going to happen on day four and what does the trump campaign need to happen? >> look, i am mindful of the idea that we here in cleveland could be in a bubble, and there is a lot of electricity finally at this convention. it began with the cruz moment. it's the first time that it's felt like boy, you could picture how trump is going to own this
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arena, he's going to dominate it but what is the other 35 million people, what are they seeing on this. how did ted cruz play outside this. there's no doubt, i agree, what cruz did has done more to unite these delegates around trump than anything trump could have done. but that's here. i think trump's challenge tonight is really difficult for him because he feeds off of energy in the room. he will want to be tempted to speak to the room, to react to the room. he has got to stay disciplined and talk to the people outside this room and it's something that he's never worried about that much before. he has to tonight. >> chris matthews, that was eugene's opening point. that is, this is a television show first and foremost. let's say you have the arena on your side. this is not a stranger to a television camera. he now has to -- he's got to break that wall. >> yeah. i think you need drama and any
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drama you need, drama needs a villain. ted cruz showed up for the job, won the audition. he is the villain. also, people root for victims and in a strange way, mr. winner last night was the one who was being punched around. cruz is a perfect villain. he really is. he looks just like joe mccarthy. he was born that way, that's the way he is. he is not popular. his college roommate won't vouch for the guy. so when he came in here and faced, put the knife into trump, by saying i'm not going to endorse the guy with that vote your conscience malarkey, everybody here knows what that meant which is i'm not to be trusted, i'm the bad guy. obviously betting on the failure of this ticket. i think that's what every politician sees. pence, mike pence, is betting on the relative success of this ticket. not necessarily winning, but doing pretty well and being a credit to the party. maybe top 40s.
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but guys like cruz, and a few others, are betting on its failure. now, john kasich, the host governor here who refused the role of host, is more interesting. he played the role of st. thomas moore. he's not going to support this candidacy but he's not going to trash it. it's very interesting to watch this as you guys say, drama, television show. it's now got a villain. his name is ted cruz. >> yeah. that villain, the one great thing he brings to this is that he actually loves being the villain. you see like there aren't very many people in politics who, when they get booed and jeered it sort of makes them bigger. he likes talking to the people who are heckling him. he likes calling them out. ted cruz did train as an actor in his young life. i think he likes being the bad guy. so that gives him an advantage for playing a role like this as long as it works out for him. >> to listen to the morning after story, a whole lot of people knew what was in doesnth
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content of that speech, let it happen. the floor whips kind of whipped up the boos up front. we will take our first break. when we come back, the ghost writer, author of "art of the deal" and some specific questions about what we need to know about donald trump as it relates to what's about to happen tonight.
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god bless each and every one of you, and god bless the united states of america. >> got a little boisterous last night in the hall. >> to have one of your prime time speakers at the penultimate night of your nominating convention refuse to endorse you pointedly and get booed off the stage would seem to be a bad turn of events for most politicians. there has been noise today and a lot of chatter in beltway circles and political circles that maybe donald trump is going
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to benefit from this somehow, whether it's as we were just talking about, ted cruz becoming a lightning rod, becoming the bad guy and that somehow makes donald trump the good guy, or maybe the victim. there is a way in which whatever goes wrong in this campaign, donald trump always seems to land on his feet. in order to understand that phenomenon, we have asked to join us here tonight tony schwartz. when donald trump wrote his 1987 memoir, "the art of the deal" tony schwartz was listed on the cover, lower right-hand side, as the co-writer. he says in fact he just wrote the book for donald trump and in order to do so, he spent quite a lot of time with mr. trump. he's made news this week in "the new yorker" for saying if he were able to write the book again, he would call it "the sociopath." he says he regrets his role in shaping a narrative about donald trump that is so positive and now donald trump has sent him a
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cease and desist letter asking for the royalties back. thank you for being here. what should we understand? what did you come to understand about donald trump in terms of living by his instincts, turning bad situations into good situations? >> let me start with this. it's really disturbing to me to watch this discussion about whether he's going to put on a good show tonight. the real issue about donald trump is donald trump. what is his character. he has the attention span and the knowledge base of a 9-year-old with adhd. i'm not saying that to be funny. i'm saying that soberly and with great fear. he doesn't know very much. he doesn't think in any complex ways and he can't pay attention. would you want a surgeon cut into your brain without training to be a surgeon? it's a frightening prospect. >> how does somebody with the kind of limitations you are describing beat 17 other very
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accomplished, well-qualified professional politicians, win the republican nomination going away and is now going to be on the stage tonight? >> by instinctively appealing to the amegdola of the brain rather than the prefrontal cortex. by rousing people's emotions as i'm sure he will do tonight so it overwhelms their capacity to look at a person rationally. any person who understands who this man is would not vote for him, period. why not? because he's not qualified for the job. put aside ideology. it isn't clear that he has an ideology anyway so the whole issue to me is what is this man's character and is it reasonable to have him as president of the united states. >> i think that is one very very important conversation. the other very important conversation is how did he get this far if that is true. you are talking about having a specific kind of emotional appeal about having an instinctive understanding of how to mount that appeal. honestly, what we are expecting tonight from his speech is a pretty workmanlike republican
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speech which puts a pretty mainstream cast on some of the more extreme policies he has proposed. it's not an emotional thing. >> here's what i would say about that speech. ignore it. ignore it. this man has told us already that he has not changed from who he was when he was 7 years old. what's the difference if he gets on tv and read a speech written by someone else off a teleprompter? it has no bearing on who he is. none. >> that's what he's going to have to do from here on out. he's going to have to go to the debates, to give this speech tonight, to campaign for president. if he becomes president, he will have to do presidential stuff, including giving speeches on topics that, to your point, he may or may not understand. question is whether or not the limitations you are describing preclude him from ascending to the job itself. i don't think the american public has decided that's so. >> i don't think the verdict is in. i wouldn't be here talking to you if i thought the verdict was in. i'm here because i'm trying to raise the warning, he successfully muzzled every
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single person so far as i know but me, who knows him really well, over the past 25 years by getting them to sign severe nondisclosures. he started with me before there was that in his head. i'm able to go out and do this and i need to do it so that before this happens, we can be saved from somebody who is going to -- >> he is still capable of the grand notion, however, correct? meaning make america great again. america first, maybe he didn't know the lindbergh related modern history of that phrase, what it came to mean in the modern era of american history. but things like make america first, things like nato will help you if you're paid up, if we're good with your financials. >> let's face it, he's a good salesman. that's the number one thing he does. interesting you were saying earlier ted cruz likes being a villain.
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donald trump likes being a villain. donald trump has said any publicity is good publicity. his deepest need, this is what i experienced being with him, his deepest need is to be noticed in every moment. noticed good, noticed bad, it doesn't matter. notice me, notice me, notice me. that's where his attention is. in an incredibly complex world. we don't want the president of the united states to be thinking all the time about how to get attention. that's what he does. >> is it true that he chose you to write "the art of the deal" after you wrote an incredibly negative journalistic profile of him? >> i'm so glad you asked me. that's a perfect example. i wrote a piece about how he was trying to harass tenants in a rent-controlled building out of the building so he could convert it into a luxury condominium. we put that piece on the cover of "new york" magazine. the picture was an illustration of him looking like a thug. he was sweating, it was unshaven, he loved it. he loved it. he wrote me a fan letter. he put it up on his wall. how does that make sense?
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>> he was on the cover. >> exactly. at this point, he hadn't been on that many covers. but it's still critically important. >> it's the old press agent's adage, as long as you spell my name right. >> absolutely. you know he's done a great job, he is a bully. that's the point. he's a bully. what he does is, he substitutes for knowledge intensity. he keeps saying it and saying it and saying it, in a small number of words in a society that builds itself around sound bites. it works. it's scary to think that but it's true. >> as they were wrapping up the "new york times" interview they put out their transcript today. here was the question for donald trump. what do you think people will take away from this convention. what are you hoping? answer, the fact that i'm very well liked. >> yeah. by the way, second best would be i'm not very well liked but you noticed me. >> wow. >> tony schwartz, author, co-author of "art of the deal" now embroiled in conflict with the man with whom you co-wrote
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this book. the cease and desist letter, do you have any fears of him coming after you? >> i always knew it was going to happen. my feeling is there's something much more at stake here than whether or not he sues me and whether or not i win or lose the suit. >> tony, thanks for being with us. appreciate it. another break for our coverage. we will continue when we come right back.
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we are back. there is the convention in cleveland tonight's theme, there has been a theme each night, make america one again, for which rachel has a dandy treatise that. will have to wait as campaign chair paul manafort is seated with chris matthews in our studio. chris? >> thank you. i'm here with paul manafort. i was suggesting awhile ago in my commentary that you guys really lucked out last night. you found a villain. ted cruz. he came in here, had kind of a very unpleasant appearance, didn't endorse the candidate of the party at the convention. he got booed. now there seems to be unity out here. everybody is talking about it. there was a unity that wasn't there before cruz showed up. >> our real villain and the person unifying us is hillary clinton, not ted cruz. >> what about cruz? what's his role here? >> donald trump felt that everybody who ran for president deserved an opportunity to speak at the convention.
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he invited every one of those 16 to speak with no conditions. some said yes and spoke. some endorsed. others didn't want to come and that was fine. cruz is the only one who came, participated and didn't indicate he would support the ticket. >> did you have the whips out there in the new york delegation ready to boo other candidates or just cruz? because clearly, this was an organized booing section. >> absolutely -- >> you are denying that? >> when he indicated he wasn't going to support donald trump that was spontaneous. >> this will go down in history as you saying there is nothing organized about this. >> for that particular moment. >> let's talk about the future. karl rove has a piece today basically, i don't know whether he likes your candidate or not, i can't tell. he said the big thing donald trump has to do is win the election through geography. he can't waste his time in california or new york which he's not going to carry. he's got to show his strategy. he has to pick up mitt romney vote from last time and add to
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that ohio, right here, pennsylvania, and then florida and a few other options. is that the kind of travel schedule you have laid out? >> that's not rocket science to start with. we are going to target about 12 to 15 states. we know the states. we think that donald trump expands the map and the ways for us to win unlike mitt romney who had one way to win, we think of putting ohio in play -- >> you have to win this state, yes or no? >> it depends. >> historically republicans can't win without ohio. >> that's because historically they couldn't win pennsylvania, couldn't win wisconsin and had trouble with places like new jersey. >> you are going to win new jersey? >> right now we have a poll in new jersey -- >> then you will win 48 states. >> we might do that. >> let's talk about triage here. let me just ask you this. point by point. ohio, pennsylvania, and the toughie, florida. how do you get florida with the hispanic vote? >> well, because jobs and
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security. hispanics are not a monolithic block. in florida, they -- >> i know. dominicans, cubans, puerto ricans. >> all of them have the same concern, security and their situation on jobs. hillary clinton is terrible in that community as well. as we get into the campaign, as we talk to the hispanic communities in particular, we are very confident we will be able to exceed the vote mitt romney got and with that, we will carry states like florida and ohio. >> how far can you get? how far can you get with the hate hillary thing? out here, there was lock her up, lock her up became the anthem of this convention for days. all we keep hearing is lock her up. it's almost like the battle hymn of the republic. they start singing lock her up. how much hatred can you garner between here and november? >> it's not about hatred. >> hatred? you call her crooked hillary. >> the american people -- she is crooked. the american people -- >> would you say tahat to her
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face? >> i'm a gentleman. what i will say is the american people overwhelmingly think she's dishonest, she's a liar, they don't trust her, so these are not -- it's not us creating this. we think she's not going to be a messenger able to carry a message in this election. as far as we're concerned, tonight donald trump will talk about himself. he will talk about his vision for the country, his issue agenda and as he goes through talking about that, he will be setting up the stakes. he will be the change candidate. she will be the establishment. she will have to justify the record of the eight years of the obama clinton administration and given the fact people already have judged her on her character, we don't think she's going to be able to prosecute a case against -- >> how do you deal with the problem, whenever a man criticizes hillary clinton, they hear male criticizing woman? how do you avoid that? >> well -- >> that's ream. >> that's real, too, but again,
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it depends which women you are talking about. many women feel they can't afford their lives, their husbands can't afford to be paying for the family bills. hillary clinton is guilty of being part of the establishment that created that problem. they will hear the message. as they hear the message, that's how we will appeal to them. >> you said women are concerned about their husband's income. >> i can speak personal to that. >> is that 21st century talking? wives are concerned about how their -- >> because they can't afford their lives anymore. that's the point. some people, it's about jobs. >> thank you, paul manafort. we are waiting for the big speech tonight. is it going to be good? >> going to be a good speech. >> we'll be right back. >> thank you, chris. >> that was great. >> fascinating stuff. talked about the finite list of critical states at the top of any list would be ohio. paul manafort started the week saying their governor, republican john kasich, is an
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embarrassment. >> yeah. not only is john kasich not there but the ohio senator running for re-election is not there, rob portman and the ohio delegation got shunted to the back of the room. he just told chris matthews there that trump doesn't need ohio, every other republican in history has needed ohio but trump doesn't need ohio because he's going to win new jersey. steve schmidt, gene robinson, is donald trump going to win new jersey? >> i'm going way out on a limb here. donald trump is not going to win new jersey. >> i second that motion. donald trump is not going to win new jersey, not going to win new york, not going to win california. if you look at the states and we talk about this frequently, if you look at the states where democrats have won five out of the last six elections, they are at 282 electoral votes. 12 more than is necessary to win the presidency. you look at the states where they have won six out of the last six elections, they are at 242 electoral votes. which means there are many more ways for the democratic candidate to win, many more
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routes to being the president of the united states than there are for the republican candidate and the republican candidate must win the state of ohio in order to be elected to the president of the united states. must win. >> that's why we have schmidt and robinson. >> can we also actually add kornacki to that list? because steve kornacki, thinking about that, that path steve schmidt was just talking about, what we just heard from paul manafort poo-poohing the meade to win ohio, saying their path goes through new jersey, is that a realistic scenario by your steve kornacki map? >> there's two things to think about here. one is that there is something to what manafort was just saying. the coalition that donald trump is putting together looks different than the coalition we have become accustomed to when we look at republican candidates. he's doing a lot better than mitt romney did with more blue collar white voters, non-college educated white voters. the flipside is he's not doing
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as well with college educated white voters. what does that mean? take the state of new jersey. new jersey is not one anybody ever really talks about as being in play in a presidential race, has not gone to a republican since back in 1988, barack obama won it comfortably in 2012 and 2008. the interesting thing is republicans did get relatively close in new jersey back in 2004, the election after 9/11. the issue of 9/11 resonated very intensely in parts of new jersey. that's an instructive case, because they got close because they were able to win the non-college educated white voters in new jersey. the reason they couldn't win it in the end, they couldn't get the college educated white voters. >> steve kornacki, thank you. are we listening to ac-dc's "you shook me all night long"? >> yeah. >> knocking me out with those american thighs? >> already an eventful night. the band leader of the man on
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the left playing guitar with the headset, g.e. smith, former band leader of the "saturday night live" band, former guitar player with and for bob dylan, long musical resume. we saw him at the mitt romney rnc convention. he's back with his axe and a long play list. we will take a break. we'll let them play us off the air. we'll be right back.
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we are back. dancing days on the floor in cleveland. we have talked about how we are probably, it can be said, hours away from hillary clinton's choice for vice presidential candidate leaking out and the democrats will indeed get their chance at a four-day television show next week weech.
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we have also talked abothe anti-hillary clinton vitriol from the floor of this convention, from the vendors outside including but not limited to the chant "lock her up" which we have heard interrupting and adding to several speeches for the first three nights. that's the start of it. yesterday, something said by a member of the new hampshire delegation actually attracted the attention, it was reported, of the secret service because it called for physical harm if not death of hillary clinton. katy tur is down in the new hampshire delegation. >> reporter: i'm with that delegate, the co-chair of donald trump's veterans team, and he's been with the trump campaign now for almost a year. you are facing quite a bit of scrutiny and push-back for your comments on hillary clinton. do you regret that? >> not at all. i spoke as a veteran and i'm being attacked by the liberal
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media along with all the liberals throughout the country. you're attacking my family, attacking my kids, going after my wife is getting beat up on twitter. people don't understand the laws and the constitution and the u.s. code. the u.s. code talks about treason. it talks about, you know, what happens in a crime. what i said is we have -- there's veterans on that list, on e-mails, there's special agents in other countries. if that e-mail gets in the wrong hands, she knowingly knows that. she should be tried. >> reporter: she has not been convicted of treason. she's been convicted of no crime. >> but the bottom line is i said she should be tried for treason. >> reporter: then you said she should be put in front of a firing squad. >> okay. once again, i said she should be tried for treason. only at the end of a trial they tell you what the verdict is. >> reporter: the secret service
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is investigating this. have they -- >> that's a bunch of b.s. >> reporter: have they contacted you? >> that's liberal media b.s. >> reporter: that's when the secret service told nbc news. >> you can't confirm service ca confirm nor deny. >> reporter: they said they're looking into it. >> maybe they're looking into it. i brought up the constitution. i brought up the u.s. code. they're going to waste their time and investigate? is. >> reporter: this campaign season has been hateful and angry in a way that we haven't seen in poll it particulars iti. >> no, it hasn't. >> reporter: do you think it's a bridge too far? >> the liberal media's interpretation of freedom of speech. >> reporter: you believe this is all us. >> yes. i believe it's the democrats that are feeding you the garbage. i hear it every day. you're going after donald trump and other candidates because they're expressing their freedom of speech. i'm sorry. political correctness is dead.
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america is tired of it. this is a movement and we're not being silenced. >> reporter: thank you for your time. i appreciate it. brian, back to you. >> katy tur on the convention floor. >> this is the veterans' state co-chair for donald trump. he's done multiple appearances with donald trump, and he did call for hillary clinton to be killed in a public venue. he did it on a radio show during a convention. he said she should be put in front of a firing squad and shot. he now says he does not the regret those remarks. he says that he doesn't take it back, and he's sticking by that insistence. >> and steve schmidt says it's the liberal media. >> he's nuts. i don't know what more to say about it than that. look, the rhetoric here when you're talking about it, there's a toxin in our body of politics. you just saw it there. we need to be able to agree that's nuts, right? across parties, across
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ideologies, that there are bounds beyond which our political discourse does not go because, you know, there lies craziness, there lies despair, and that's way out there. >> let's go to the podium where jerry fallwell jr. is speaking. >> architect, ministers, farmers, businessmen and even actors who are successful in the private sector before serving in government. donald trump follows in this rich tradition. he has created jobs for thousands and is one of the greatest vision ari esest visio time. i first supported mr. trump after i spent 20 years as a young lawyer working with my father to restore liberty university to financial health. since 2007 liberty has become the largest and most prosperous
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christian university in the world. and i am convinced that donald trump can work that same magic for a nation with $19 trillion in debt. my family and i have grown to love and respect the trumps for other reasons. we have never met such a genuine and loving family. i truly believe mr. trump is america's blue collar billionaire. [ applause ] he is down-to-earth, he loves america and the american people. he is a true patriot and a champion of the common man. mr. trump has added a plank to this party's platform to repeal irs rules sponsored by lyndon johnson in 1954 barring churches
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and nonprofits from expressing political free speech. [ applause ] conservative universities and churches, however, have been investigated while authorities have too often turned a blind eye toward liberal groups including universities where left-wing ideology is so pervasive that they have, in effect, become democratic vote indoctrination camps. trust me, the repeal of the johnson amendment will create a huge revolution for conservative christians and for free speech. [ applause ] we are at a crossroads where our first priority must be saving our nation. we must unite behind donald trump and mike pence. [ applause ]
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if you are a conservative, a decision not to vote or to vote for a third party candidate is a de facto vote for hillary clinton. >> this is jerry fallwell jr. speaking from the podium. the opening speakers tonight are kind of a slice of the social conservative movement in republican politics. tony perkins from the family research council is anti-abortion, anti-gay activist. jerry fallwell jr. who runs liberty university, sheriff joe from arizona -- >> state penitentiary. >> we knew it was coming, fake handcuffs. >> pastor mark burns who gave the very controversial benediction on the first night in which he called in jesus' name defeat of the enemy, which is hillary clinton and the
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liberal democrats. that's the opening view tonight on the fourth night of the convention. that's a slice of republican politics. another major thing going on in republican politics is not happening inside this arena but it is happening simultaneously and it's a really big deal. before a couple weeks ago, this was unthinkable but tonight, 21st century fox has announced that roger ailes, the chairman and ceo of fox news channel and fox business network, has resigned from his role effective immediately. rue pert murdoch assuming the role. two seismic things happening, the scheduled one is donald trump accepting the nomination for president tonight. the unscheduled one is this news about roger ailes and fox news. joining us now is michael wolfe to discuss this. michael, thanks very much for being with us. can you give us some perspective on the importance of fox news in the republican party? >> i think fox news and roger
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ailes have been the most important influence in the republic yn party and the conservative movement for a generation now. i don't really think you can overestimate how pervasive and how truly profound fox has been. donald trump tonight is going to say, i am your voice, because we know this because his speech has been leaked but really that voice, i am your voice, the republican voice, has been fox for a very long time now. >> michael, what happened when fox ran into the idea, the year of donald trump? >> i think it's been a very contentious year for fox. fox is use d to giving orders, effectively, to republican candidates. and donald trump in a very interesting way was able to sort of out fox fox, although i will
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say that roger ailes told me that while all of this was true, donald trump would be of incredible financial value to fox and at the time he said this to me he also said this way donald trump and the money he would make off him would guarantee him at least another year at running fox news. >> we're talking with michael wolff who covers media and has for both the hollywood reporter and "usa today." michael, try to bring folks back to how outlandish and revolutionary it was when fox was formed and we had people like bill clinton back in the day talking about this new era where there's a network that already agrees with you when you wake up in the morning. >> well, the background of this
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is rupert murdoch tried to buy cnn. ted turner wouldn't sell him cnn, so rupert murdoch said i'm going to start my own network. and rupert murdoch, and it's very interesting in light of the fact he's now taken over today, knows nothing about the television business, actually doesn't really watch television all that much, is strictly a newspaper guy. but he understood how important cable television was becoming to the american political discourse. he called up roger ailes, who was then running cnbc for nbc. they hadn't met before. they sat down immediately a meeting of the minds, and he gave roger ailes full control of the network, literally contractually he promised not to interfere with the running of fox. that was in 1996. and within five years fox was the leading network, vastly
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larger -- its audience vastly larger than cnn actually winning in every timeslot and, of course, becoming this amazing force in the republican party. >> michael, do you think that the way roger has run fox news has essentially created dna for that network that it can continue to replicate what it's been doing in his absence? is he such an active manager, such an active controller of the way that network looks and the way it thinks and the way it to looks every day we'll see a very different network, or do they know what to do now after 20 years of roger? >> no. i think roger is -- it's been the remarkable thing about fox that fox is roger ailes. he has this -- this connection to his audience, a kind of connection that i don't think we've ever seen in the television news business. absolutely un.

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